surfing towards Bethlehem ([info]oulangi) wrote,
@ 2008-04-22 23:29:00
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Bad dog, no cookie
I wasn’t going to write about this. Mostly because I believe that the post was at least partly motivated by theferrett’s continued quest for to be famous on teh intaerwebs, and I don’t believe in rewarding bad-dog behavior. I've made that mistake with real dogs before. I get amused or charmed by brattiness, only to find the dog won't listen to me and is peeing on the floor.

A lot of very clever people have written things that resonate with me, most of which comes down to keep your rules/laws/hands off my body. I’m not getting into that, because frankly it should be so fucking obvious to anyone that a woman’s body is her own, and NO you really really don’t get to co-opt it for wank fantasy/social experiment of fail, and when you do you’re no better than any other man who has used his privilege, his power, his brute strength to keep a woman down.

No, really.

And I think this is where [info]theferrett's brain malfunctioned (I mean aside from the obvious), because it’s clear reading his blog that he thinks of himself as an ally of women.

The problem with identifying yourself as an ally or a “good guy” (and as a white woman interested in racism/social justice I do get this) is the danger of developing a blind spot to your own privilege. That’s what I see happening here. [info]theferrett sees himself as an ally; therefore it is impossible that he would/could participate in something demeaning or harmful to women.

That’s a mighty comfortable place to live, isn’t it?

So what the hell am I talking about? The lolcat (minus actual lolcats, cause LAZY) version could be summarized like this:

[info]theferrett: ZOMG Boobie groping for grate empowerment
Wimmin: huh wut?
[info]theferrett: Boobies!!!
Wimmin: dude, you’re objectification is not revolutionary and it’s not OK.
[info]theferrett: UR interrogating my sexist bullshit boobage groping from the wrong perspective!
Wimmin: How are you an asshat? Let me list the ways…
Mrs.Theferrett: well, I’M a woman and I’M OK with it, therefore it’s TOTES feminism
[info]theferrett: See??? A woman thought it was OK therefore boobie groping is totes feminist empowerment
Wimmin: and we’re still counting…

See, you know what? That easy dismissal of women’s concern about their safety because they don’t see the magicbeautyjoyjoy of your boob groping fits the definition of male privilege. And it isn’t any less oppressive or sexist when wielded by an “ally” or a “good guy”.

Oh, and while we’re on the topic of dumb privilege arguments; just because a token women/minority will argue for your idiocy does not mean that a) you’re any less of an asshat, or b) that you get a free pass for being an asshat. Seriously. You’re like half a step from “some of my best friends are …” so cut that shit out.

So I keep reading that bit in the middle, the part when woman after woman was saying UM NO, and [info]theferrett and his boy-os were insisting that they just didn’t get it – it reminds me more and more of that evil smirk my dog would give me before he's piss all over the living room. Remarkably [info]theferrett has maintained his utter cluelessness and written YET MOAR about how boob groping should only be practiced among small groups because other fanboys – you know, those real mouth-breathers – will take this beautiful, amazing, powerful thing (that you nay-sayers STILL just don’t understand, but here – let my wife/token woman defend it moar) and make it something perverse and dirty, STILL doesn’t get that he’s actually part of the problem.

That he isn’t an ally or a good guy here.

I feel myself itching to roll up a newspaper or grab their necks and rub their noses in the giant puddle* they’re making. But what the hell would the point be? The jolly great thing about privilege is they gets to go on peeing on the carpet and ignoring the rest of us.

This grand new experiment was about the commoditization of women’s bodies. That isn’t revolutionary (at least, not to a lot of women. Fanboy mileage may vary), nor is it a particularly interesting idea. In fact it’s pretty much the same idea that men have been selling to women for a good long time.




*Please note that I am 100% opposed to rubbing a dog’s nose in urine. The technique doesn’t work, it’s needlessly cruel and sadistic, and just causes the animal stress. However those objections do NOT carry over to being against rubbing men’s noses in urine. In fact, I wholeheartedly support the rubbing of mens noses in urine, be it for fun or profit.

edit There's a great round up of links here


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[info]invidereliana
2008-04-23 08:23 am UTC (link)
It amazes me how these skeevy asshats are scratching their heads "duh what wrong with touching boobies?" Yech. And as I said on another friend's journal, a few comments I've seen have bordered on "If it was X celebrity, the wimmins wouldn't care!!ELEVENTYONE!" Uh, yea, they would. Not every woman is jumping to have Johnny Depp / Wentworth Miller / whoever feel 'em up!

And they are shooting themselves in the foot just by their own words, they aren't coming across as "women's empowerment through de-sexualizing their bits" just "hehehe BOOBIES" Like the whole By the end of the evening, women were coming up to us. "My breasts," they asked shyly, having heard about the project. "Are they... are they good enough to be touched?" And lo, we showed them how beautiful their bodies were without turning it into something tawdry. I want a scrub brush and bleach just reading that!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]oulangi
2008-04-23 05:14 pm UTC (link)
God, I missed the celeb tie-in. Links? Unfortunately that scenario is not all that uncommon either. It's happened to me: I'm working some event & famous actor leers at boobs and asks to touch/squeeze/lick them. I'm willing to bet it's happened to a lot of women who live/work in LA.

That line was REALLY telling, wasn't it? All those WORDS he used before were distilled into the true vision; theferrett's kingdom of boob, where he and his knights of the round table were offered the bounty of boob in return for their protection and approval. Seriously deluded vomitcakes there.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]invidereliana, 2008-04-23 08:12 pm UTC

[info]cordelia_v
2008-04-23 09:09 am UTC (link)
This response (if you haven't seen it already) won the intranets, as far as I was concerned. And shows once again that brevity is the soul of wit.

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[info]oulangi
2008-04-23 04:28 pm UTC (link)
I had not seen it, and yeah that's made of win :D. I also liked this one from [info]erestor.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]reddwarfer
2008-04-23 10:28 am UTC (link)
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just...it's not doing anything good.

You know any feeling of safety is nullified by the idea that any man thinks that this sort of thing empowers anything. That you can desexualise my sexual bits. That any part of my body is fair game for anyone touch. That I have to turn it down instead of people waiting for me to invite them to touch in the first place.

And even if my favourite star/actor/actress/whomever asked me, it'd be no. It'd make me uncomfortable. It would make me uncomfortable if someone walked up to me asking to touch my ANYTHING.

Also, this idea is bad on the pretext that there will be people that hear about it that don't want to follow the "rules" and don't ask to find out and think that any woman's body is free for touching, you know, because it's there.

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[info]oulangi
2008-04-23 04:34 pm UTC (link)
Just...it's not doing anything good.
No, it isn't. This is when the true allies are separated from the men who think calling themselves feminist is a good way to grope meet women. Theferrett is self-selecting himself into that latter category.

Thats the second time I've seen "your favorite actor" brought up. Did someone actually make that argument? Cause WOW...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]reddwarfer, 2008-04-23 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rydra_wong, 2008-04-24 04:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-24 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]britgirlsf, 2008-04-30 06:04 am UTC

[info]lim
2008-04-23 10:32 am UTC (link)
ugh ugh ugh ugh UGH

You know, reading that just reminded me of all the sweaty creeps that hung around me back when I was a jailbait flower child. Oh, yeah, man, everything is beautiful, let me give you a massage, I'm touching your soul, you're so open and free.

I do not miss that scene.

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[info]oulangi
2008-04-23 04:38 pm UTC (link)
omg yes. He's constructed the elaborate excuse to grope women, without seeing that ALL creepy gropers have elaborate excuses to justify themselves.


(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]little_murmurs
2008-04-23 11:33 am UTC (link)
Somehow I managed to miss the open season on gropage. How special.

I cannot list the ways this bothers me.

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[info]oulangi
2008-04-23 05:17 pm UTC (link)
Luckily there are some great posts written by some very articulate people on why it bothers. They resonated with me - and being basically lazy I didn't bother to rehash their topic. Just reading and thing YEAH THIS was enough for me.

I recommend reading them though, unfunnybusiness of JF has a great set of links.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]fabu
2008-04-23 11:48 am UTC (link)
The problem with identifying yourself as an ally or a “good guy” (and as a white woman interested in racism/social justice I do get this) is the danger of developing a blind spot to your own privilege.

Yes - this. . .

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 05:32 pm UTC

[info]jaiden_s
2008-04-23 11:54 am UTC (link)
If he wants to deny his own asshattery, that's on him, but when he implies that I "just don't get it" because I object to being groped, I'm ready to administer the smackdown.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 05:46 pm UTC

[info]abydosangel
2008-04-23 11:59 am UTC (link)
So that means he's totally cool with Judo-punches and eyegouging for grate justice too, right?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 05:48 pm UTC

[info]half_elf_lost
2008-04-23 12:07 pm UTC (link)
The problem with identifying yourself as an ally or a “good guy” (and as a white woman interested in racism/social justice I do get this) is the danger of developing a blind spot to your own privilege. That’s what I see happening here. theferrett sees himself as an ally; therefore it is impossible that her would/could participate in something demeaning or harmful to women.

Yes, I just commented in [info]darkrosetiger's journal with the same concern (only you did it 10x clearer). He's so completely entrenched in his own privilege that I'm still not sure if he understands the many reasons why it was wrong.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 05:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]invidereliana, 2008-04-23 08:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]half_elf_lost, 2008-04-24 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]influencethis, 2008-04-25 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-26 04:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]influencethis, 2008-04-25 06:53 pm UTC

[info]bethbethbeth
2008-04-23 12:57 pm UTC (link)
Possibly the best post on the subject that I've seen thus far.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dinpik, 2008-04-24 12:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-24 06:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dinpik, 2008-04-25 11:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-26 03:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dinpik, 2008-04-27 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-27 04:58 pm UTC

[info]amorettea
2008-04-23 02:40 pm UTC (link)
I had never heard of this jerkwad before this and all he had done is confirm that scifi geeks are hormone-driven, selfish, adolescent twits who think women exist for their judgement and pleasure. I don't care what his opinion is of my body. It is MINE.

I am so angry I could hit someone and I am about as nonviolent as a tulip.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 06:11 pm UTC

[info]tartpants
2008-04-23 03:30 pm UTC (link)
I saw his original post but did it ever get reported on Fandom Wank or anything?

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(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 04:16 pm UTC

[info]imkalena
2008-04-23 04:14 pm UTC (link)
WOW. I mean, srsly, WOW.

I missed this whole thing, and I'm kinda glad. I am not going to go read all about it, because it'll just make me go ballistic and he's too self-absorbed (an aspect of, as you say, privelege) to have it make any difference.

I think the thing is that fanboys is that they haven't got much chance to commodify women -- not up close and personal. Magazines and tv, yeah. And the thing about voluntary (as opposed to the more common involuntary) commodification of ourselves is that if we're willing, we WANT something for it.

Money. TV time.

Neither of which a fanboy is able to provide. I mean, I don't think the majority of men hire prostitutes. It takes a certain determination or mindset even to go looking for them.

So this really is a new and exciting idea to him.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anne_jumps, 2008-04-23 06:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anne_jumps, 2008-04-23 06:39 pm UTC

[info]imaginarycircus
2008-04-23 07:02 pm UTC (link)
His wife is seriously started to piss me off. She is all over other people's posts defending this shit and saying she wasn't victimized and anyone complaining can't read/is brainwashed/drank the kool aid.

You know because naive utopian thoughts about sex should trump actual history and current sexual politics.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]invidereliana, 2008-04-23 08:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]imaginarycircus, 2008-04-23 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]invidereliana, 2008-04-23 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]imaginarycircus, 2008-04-23 09:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]imaginarycircus, 2008-04-23 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dinpik, 2008-04-24 12:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]imaginarycircus, 2008-04-24 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]britgirlsf, 2008-04-30 06:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]laura_holt_pi, 2008-04-25 08:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]imaginarycircus, 2008-04-25 09:46 pm UTC

[info]thecityofdis
2008-04-23 07:35 pm UTC (link)
As a (queer!) male feminist:

Oh Jesus.

The fail (really degrading, oppressive, misogynistic faux-allied, invalidating "false consciousness-har-boobs" fail) is strong with this one.

Christ, I should have been a lesbian.

Pirate Yoda wants to hack this guy to shreds.

Edited at 2008-04-23 07:35 pm UTC

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 09:02 pm UTC

[info]acari
2008-04-23 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I made the mistake and did some background reading on his website and in his LJ. Let me just say I want to lovingly open-source his balls with a chainsaw.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-23 09:02 pm UTC

[info]delaese
2008-04-25 04:21 am UTC (link)
Well I'm coming in late on the subject, so just let me say that rubbing a dog's nose in pee accomplishes nothing. Praising her for going outside works much better, and saying it's okay to grope women because you're a feminist is like saying it's okay to rape kids because you're a child therapist. Wrong is wrong no matter who you think you are.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-25 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]delaese, 2008-04-26 04:35 am UTC

[info]tacky_tramp
2008-04-25 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Full of win as always. And you have the perfect icon for it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-26 04:03 am UTC

[info]laura_holt_pi
2008-04-25 08:36 pm UTC (link)
He doesn't see himself as a friend to women, he presents himself as one in the hope that we are all too stupid to recognise a grubby little pervert when we meet one.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2008-04-26 04:02 am UTC

[info]entrenous88
2008-04-25 09:48 pm UTC (link)
YES.

That's been something horribly grating in this larger ridiculousness, that he thinks he's a friend of women. It's very much a, "I care so much about your safety and well-being and sexuality and wonderfulness, so. Let ME care about it, and tell you what to care about, m'kay? And if I say it's all right, then it is. Shut up."

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